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TOPIC: Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility

Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 26 Oct 2016 14:08 #7697

With some looking to BBQ those working on TTP, the staff fielding questions similar to the right fielder, and then the big question. Would Micromat be seeking additional funding from end users for this re-write? Maybe it's far to early to tell. Suggestion, suggest using the acronym "SUD". Posted on the refrigerator door for viewing by teenagers it means "Suck Up and Deal"!
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 26 Oct 2016 14:25 #7698

We are not looking for any additional funding, but thanks for the suggestion.

The fact is that nothing any of us writes has any effect on the productivity of the programmers, or how quickly proper beta testing can be completed.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 26 Oct 2016 17:56 #7699

The update for TechTool Pro last year, for El Capitan compatibility, came out at a very reasonable time, about 2 weeks after OS 10.11 was released. This current situation is "bothersome", per se, but seems to be understandable. I do concur, though, with folks who have raised valid concerns about communication issues with Micromat and Tech Tool Pro. In actuality, given that OS 10.12.1 has just been released, hopefully the update for TechTool Pro is on the "near" horizon, and that it is compatible with OS 10.12.1.

Once concern I have, though, is that given how complex it has been for Micromat to come out with a version compatible with OS 10.12, imagine what is going to happen when Apple makes the significant changes to their file system (ie, the Finder) sometime next year. It would not surprise me to see all third party disk cleanup/maintenance/programs like TechTool Pro, Drive Genius, and Disk Warrior, and excellent ones like Onyx (free!) and Coctail (not expensive at all) to also need major re-writes.

To be fair, it seems (from what I have read and seen) that Drive Genius is not yet compatible with OS 10.12, whereas Disk Warrior (v5.0) is.
Last Edit: 26 Oct 2016 23:38 by akent35.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 26 Oct 2016 18:25 #7700

This update is not simply for compatibility with macOS Sierra. The TechTool Protection system preferences pane is getting a nearly complete re-write.

It is not simply the programmers who are going to have a lot of work to do when APFS becomes the default filesystem for the Macintosh. The users are going to have to absorb a lot of new concepts, all the way down to what a copy of a file is.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
Last Edit: 26 Oct 2016 18:27 by micromattech3.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 26 Oct 2016 19:00 #7701

micromattech3 wrote:
This update is not simply for compatibility with macOS Sierra. The TechTool Protection system preferences pane is getting a nearly complete re-write.

It is not simply the programmers who are going to have a lot of work to do when APFS becomes the default filesystem for the Macintosh. The users are going to have to absorb a lot of new concepts, all the way down to what a copy of a file is.

Is the preferences pane re-write a result of OS 10.12? or has it been "in the works" for quite some time?

And yes, I understand what you are saying about the upcoming "new" default file system. I was just remarking that such a change is, most likely, going to require MUCH MORE work that the change/enhancement to the preferences pane re-write. I fact, wonder if the preferences pane will need another re-write (along with everything else that will need to be done)?
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 26 Oct 2016 19:22 #7702

The re-writing of the TechTool Protection system preferences pane is partly for compatibility with macOS Sierra and partly to replace older APIs with newer ones, which should reduce the need for large-scale rewriting in the near future.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 26 Oct 2016 19:41 #7703

micromattech3 wrote:
The re-writing of the TechTool Protection system preferences pane is partly for compatibility with macOS Sierra and partly to replace older APIs with newer ones, which should reduce the need for large-scale rewriting in the near future.

We can only hope that is the case, as the work will be complex enough with the upcoming file system changes Apple is planning on.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 28 Oct 2016 14:45 #7704

I have read thru 2 pages on this topic and now have a massive headache and none the wiser.

May I suggest a simple statement as a topic heading: TechToolPro 9 is NOT ready for mac os Sierra

or

TechToolPro 9 IS ready for mac os Sierra.

And then the topic should be closed.

And i apologize if i upset any staff at micromat.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 28 Oct 2016 14:56 #7705

The topic title suggests that there is a question about the compatibility of TechTool Pro 9.0.1 with macOS Sierra 10.12.

My first reply makes gives the answer:

There will be an update that will be compatible with Sierra. We must test the update with Sierra after it is actually released. If you substitute "Sierra" for "El Capitan" in the thread linked below, you will see why we must be cautious:

www.micromat.com/component/kunena/techto...n-compatibility#6594
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 28 Oct 2016 15:40 #7706

In that case, what do i use to repair the directory of macOS Sierra now @ 10.12.1 ?
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 28 Oct 2016 17:14 #7707

Walter,

Please send a message to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. , including a link to this thread. Thank you.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 28 Oct 2016 17:38 #7708

Walter wrote:
In that case, what do i use to repair the directory of macOS Sierra now @ 10.12.1 ?

I hope the Micromat folks don't mind me doing this, but Walter, you can use Disk Utility to do what you need to get done. However, you'll need to boot to the (hidden) Recovery HD partition and run Disk Utility from there to repair the directory.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 28 Oct 2016 17:49 #7709

DiskWarrior does that. With all due respect to TTP, which I've been using since it was a pup, and still do, I learned long ago from bitter experience that if the data on your Mac is really important, you ought to have both. There are situations which one of these can't repair, but the other can.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 28 Oct 2016 18:53 #7710

gbdoc wrote:
DiskWarrior does that. With all due respect to TTP, which I've been using since it was a pup, and still do, I learned long ago from bitter experience that if the data on your Mac is really important, you ought to have both. There are situations which one of these can't repair, but the other can.

Yes, that is certainly true, and I recently obtained V5 of Disk Warrior. However, most folks do not even have either TechTool Pro or Disk Warrior (and very few (like yourself and I) have both), and thus Disk Utility is what they have, and it can do the job.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 28 Oct 2016 20:16 #7711

If Disk Utility, which, to be fair, has improved some over the years, is all they have for repairing a demented disk directory, IMO they're up the proverbial creek.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 00:01 #7712

My data are important to me, too, so I keep current versions of TTP and DiskWarrior, use Disk Utility and also keep full backups with TimeMachine and partial backups using CarbonCopyCloaner scheduled tasks to different target disks-- one network mounted.

At risk of being too pedantic, I believe I speak for most of the customers (who value their data and convenience) when I say that it is more important to me as a customer to receive a safe Sierra-compatble TTP that will do no harm than it is to get an earlier version that may mess up anything on my disk(s). I vote for ya'll making sure you have a good solid version before releasing to the public. (Keep up the good work and stick to your guns.)

Can't folks who are anxious to try new versions obtain alpha or beta copies to use their own risk?
Myself, I would use only the release version that has been verified to be safe to use...
I would not advise anyone to use a pre-release version of TTP on anything but "throw-away" machine that could tolerate an unrecoverable hard-crash freeze of the system that wipes the entire disk(s) clean.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 00:38 #7713

By definition, alpha software is not released outside of the company that developed it.

We have from time to time offered beta versions of TechTool Pro to customers who needed to solve a specific problem that we were confident the beta version could solve. In general, you are better off waiting for the official release. Beta software can generate a lot of error messages, can slow down your Macintosh, and can prove exasperating.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
Last Edit: 29 Oct 2016 00:48 by micromattech3.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: Walter

Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 01:56 #7714

akent35 wrote:
Walter wrote:
In that case, what do i use to repair the directory of macOS Sierra now @ 10.12.1 ?

I hope the Micromat folks don't mind me doing this, but Walter, you can use Disk Utility to do what you need to get done. However, you'll need to boot to the (hidden) Recovery HD partition and run Disk Utility from there to repair the directory.

With all due respects to you i am not so sure that Disk Utility is really capable of repairing a seriously mangled directory.

Most of the time i start by using Disk Utility from another hard drive such as a cloned hard drive. I have had the experience where Disk Utility has reported a hard drive can't be repaired. i repeated the process with DU 2 or 3 times with the same report from DU. Then I " wash " the disk with TechTool Pro and all is OK. I believe that utilities such as TechToolPro go deeper in their process to repair directories.

I recall the days of OS 7 and 8 when TechTool Pro although it had a different name was free and was fantastic for its day and intended use.

I also have DiskWarrior in my " tool kit ". DiskWarrior is what i call a one trick pony since essentially it repairs directories.

It never hurts ( only the pocket book ) to have more than one disk repair utility. Especially when i am constantly installing and trying different applications. Also very important to maintain my hard drives in working order for working with audio/video programmes especially when meeting client deadlines.

Please excuse my ranting.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 02:20 #7715

gbdoc wrote:
If Disk Utility, which, to be fair, has improved some over the years, is all they have for repairing a demented disk directory, IMO they're up the proverbial creek.

When one clicks on First Aid in Disk Utility, I do not know how much it does. But, it has never been "bashed" for bring "deficient".

I'd like to see a comprehensive comparison of Disk Utility, Disk Warrior, Drive Genius, and TechTool Pro for the "common" functionality with all of them. That could be illuminating.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 02:24 #7716

jw13 wrote:
My data are important to me, too, so I keep current versions of TTP and DiskWarrior, use Disk Utility and also keep full backups with TimeMachine and partial backups using CarbonCopyCloaner scheduled tasks to different target disks-- one network mounted.

At risk of being too pedantic, I believe I speak for most of the customers (who value their data and convenience) when I say that it is more important to me as a customer to receive a safe Sierra-compatble TTP that will do no harm than it is to get an earlier version that may mess up anything on my disk(s). I vote for ya'll making sure you have a good solid version before releasing to the public. (Keep up the good work and stick to your guns.)

Can't folks who are anxious to try new versions obtain alpha or beta copies to use their own risk?
Myself, I would use only the release version that has been verified to be safe to use...
I would not advise anyone to use a pre-release version of TTP on anything but "throw-away" machine that could tolerate an unrecoverable hard-crash freeze of the system that wipes the entire disk(s) clean.

I feel exactly the same as you. I use SuperDuper! for my backups (make two for each of my Macs to two separate external devices). IN actuality, Sierra does not really offer me anything new that I must have, and thus I am more than willing to wait for a Sierra-compatible version of TechTool Pro to be released, and thus remain with OS 10.11.6.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 04:07 #7717

akent35 wrote:
jw13 wrote:

IN actuality, Sierra does not really offer me anything new that I must have, and thus I am more than willing to wait for a Sierra-compatible version of TechTool Pro to be released, and thus remain with OS 10.11.6.

True. Which is why i installed macOS Sierra on an external drive. Although some of the " new " is good but some of it useless to me. For example, talking to Siri and having him/her reply. I suppose it's Apple's baby steps into the world of robotics although not as good as HBO's series West World.

There is new feature in macOS Sierra that bothers me is the insane/absurd use of Apple's gatekeeper. Meaning, it is my computer and if i want to install or allow installation of some malice software or software not bought at the Apple store that is my business. If things go that bad i can always erase the hard drive and start again or use TTPro/DW to bail me out. I do understand, Apple is in the business of selling iMac's etc so they need to protect many of their buyers that have very little to no knowledge of the MacOS. macOS Sierra goes a long way to protect the brand hardware and software.

Thanks for taking time to read my reply.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 07:13 #7718

If Disk Utility, which comes free with Mac OS, were good at directory repair, why would people be willing to pay for the relatively expensive heavy lifters, TTP, DW, and DG? Disk Utility has long been known to be deficient for directory repair, which is the most common serious corruption problem (for Macs; the real world has much worse such problems, which even the best can't correct ;( ) (just one example: <www.macworld.com/article/2030516/do-you-...y-disk-utility-.html>). If your data is crucial, you neem at least two of these three, plus bootable clones, otherwise, you're flying by the seat of your pants. Many, perhaps even most, users don't appreciate this. Sic transit ...
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 12:10 #7719

Walter wrote:

There is new feature in macOS Sierra that bothers me is the insane/absurd use of Apple's gatekeeper. Meaning, it is my computer and if i want to install or allow installation of some malice software or software not bought at the Apple store that is my business. If things go that bad i can always erase the hard drive and start again or use TTPro/DW to bail me out. I do understand, Apple is in the business of selling iMac's etc so they need to protect many of their buyers that have very little to no knowledge of the MacOS. macOS Sierra goes a long way to protect the brand hardware and software.

Thanks for taking time to read my reply.

Is that "feature" any worse than it was/is in El Capitan? One can still "get around" Apple's gatekeeper, via setting in the Security & Privacy Preference Pane. I hope one can still do the same in Sierra. For one of my most critical programs Onyx, I MUST be able to get around gatekeeper.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 15:57 #7720

IMO Gatekeeper is a good idea. There's more and more malware around, and stuff will surely appear which can affect Macs. Since the naive user (which most are; you, Walter, are probably not, but you, and most of us here, are a small minority) is most at risk, it's a pretty good idea to have this protection ON by default. But it can be disabled in Sierra, at least to some extent, but not entirely, either on a general basis or on single apps. See here: <support.apple.com/en-us/HT202491>. I use OnyX, too, and it's really not a big deal to go through the extra step in order to open it - and it's not updated that often, anyway.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 16:20 #7721

>Can't folks who are anxious to try new versions obtain alpha or beta copies to use their own risk?

I think it’d be foolhardy, and downright irresponsible, for the serious fixit apps (TTP, DW, DG, but not, for instance, like OnyX) to release anything but versions proven, as far as possible, to not only work but be safe to use. In fact, none of them release early versions. Unlike most apps, these guys grapple with the innards of your software, and can potentially wreak havoc if they’re not right. This is clearly a case where user curiosity must bow to prudence.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 16:47 #7722

gbdoc wrote:
IMO Gatekeeper is a good idea. There's more and more malware around, and stuff will surely appear which can affect Macs. Since the naive user (which most are; you, Walter, are probably not, but you, and most of us here, are a small minority) is most at risk, it's a pretty good idea to have this protection ON by default. But it can be disabled in Sierra, at least to some extent, but not entirely, either on a general basis or on single apps. See here: <support.apple.com/en-us/HT202491>. I use OnyX, too, and it's really not a big deal to go through the extra step in order to open it - and it's not updated that often, anyway.

Actually, based on that link, it looks like the process is the same to get around gatekeeper via the Security & Privacy Preference Pane.

I also agree that one MUST be knowledgeable when getting around gatekeeper. So yes, although somewhat of a hassle for folks that do know what they are doing, it is good that Appel retains it.

As for Onyx, they have specific versions for each specific OS. I have already downloaded the version specific to Sierra, but of course have not installed it yet. Once Micromat offers the required TechTool Update for Sierra compatibility, I'll install it after "moving" to OS 10.12.1. (I have another one like that, the Logitech Control Center for my Logitech mice).
Last Edit: 29 Oct 2016 20:37 by akent35.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 16:50 #7723

gbdoc wrote:
>Can't folks who are anxious to try new versions obtain alpha or beta copies to use their own risk?

I think it’d be foolhardy, and downright irresponsible, for the serious fixit apps (TTP, DW, DG, but not, for instance, like OnyX) to release anything but versions proven, as far as possible, to not only work but be safe to use. In fact, none of them release early versions. Unlike most apps, these guys grapple with the innards of your software, and can potentially wreak havoc if they’re not right. This is clearly a case where user curiosity must bow to prudence.

That's not true of Onyx. The version specifically for Sierra was not released until early October, and there was no "pre-release/beta" version of it (as far as I know). So, I'm glad Titanium Software controls Onyx in that fashion. (They actually did release an updated version for El Capitan around the middle of September, which is also good).
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 20:23 #7724

Well, akent, you may be right, but ... yes, OnyX has OS-specific ready-for-prime-time versions. Yet, at least 2 years ago, they also offered beta versions (<www.techspot.com/downloads/2863-onyx-for-mac.html>). I haven't followed this, because beta versions of anything don't interest me, so I don't know if they still do. But the point, and the major difference between OnyX and the others is that OnyX doesn't really repair anything, it only runs the maintenance routines already in the OS, but in an easily executable form. This will clear the OS of some needless flotsam and jetsam, cobwebs, which can slow things down, but it doesn't really repair anything seriously wrong. If OnyX is mistaken, there's no harm done. That's why OnyX betas (if they are still available) are no real danger. However, even OnyX may have become more cautious since 2014, and ceased to offer pre-release versions. QED.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 21:43 #7725

gbdoc wrote:
Well, akent, you may be right, but ... yes, OnyX has OS-specific ready-for-prime-time versions. Yet, at least 2 years ago, they also offered beta versions (<www.techspot.com/downloads/2863-onyx-for-mac.html>). I haven't followed this, because beta versions of anything don't interest me, so I don't know if they still do. But the point, and the major difference between OnyX and the others is that OnyX doesn't really repair anything, it only runs the maintenance routines already in the OS, but in an easily executable form. This will clear the OS of some needless flotsam and jetsam, cobwebs, which can slow things down, but it doesn't really repair anything seriously wrong. If OnyX is mistaken, there's no harm done. That's why OnyX betas (if they are still available) are no real danger. However, even OnyX may have become more cautious since 2014, and ceased to offer pre-release versions. QED.

I never use beta software, as I am not in any big hurry to get to the next version of a product. Thus, I have no knowledge of betas for Onyx. And yes, except for Permissions, Onyx does not repair anything. But, it does an excellent job at cleaning out unnecessary crap. And, it is a rock solid piece of software.

Wonder which is "better" at Repairing permissions: Onyx, TechTool Pro, or Disk Warrior. Yeah, supposedly ever since El Capitan, the Mac OS repairs permissions. But, I don't believe it, as every time I select Repair Permissions in Onyx, it finds permissions to be repaired, and of course repairs them. In fact, I usually have to run it twice for both of my Macs.

In any event, Onyx is an excellent product, and it's good at what it does. I rest my case.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 29 Oct 2016 22:09 #7726

Utilities that repair permissions are providing an interface to a Terminal command that Apple provides. One of them cannot be better than another.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 02 Nov 2016 16:28 #7732

What i do not fully understand is why DiskWarrior 5 is safe to use on macOS SIERRA whereas TechTool Pro 9.0.1 is not and v 9.0.2 is still in Beta.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 02 Nov 2016 16:55 #7734

Disk Warrior has far fewer features and tests than TechTool Pro. Some of what we have must be written for and tested on specific machines and configurations.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 02 Nov 2016 18:12 #7737

micromattech3 wrote:
Disk Warrior has far fewer features and tests than TechTool Pro. Some of what we have must be written for and tested on specific machines and configurations.

While that is true, Disk Warrior does the following tasks very well:

1. Directory Rebuild

2. Repair Disk Permissions

3. Check All Files and Folders

4. Perform a hardware Test (part of that is SMART functionality, like TechTool Pro).

Yes, TechTool Pro does other things, but the ones listed above are the critical functions that should be performed on a periodic basis.

Given that I also have Disk Warrior and Onyx, I could upgrade to Sierra and use those excellent tools until TechTool Pro is upgraded. I am still waiting, though.

I guess the biggest "frustration" for folks is how long it is taking Micromat to get the upgrade out there. But, I of course understand that Micromat wants to get it right. Still though, it's been over 6 weeks since OS 10.12 was released.
Last Edit: 02 Nov 2016 21:46 by akent35.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 05 Nov 2016 09:52 #7739

What other tools can I use untill TTP Sierra will come out?

I must fix an external drive...

Any suggestions of apps similar to TTP 9 ?

Thanks
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 05 Nov 2016 10:02 #7741

I cannot comment on competitors' products. I suggest you ask at the Apple forums.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 05 Nov 2016 17:43 #7746

danlavie wrote:
What other tools can I use untill TTP Sierra will come out?

I must fix an external drive...

Any suggestions of apps similar to TTP 9 ?

Thanks

First off, what specific issues are you having with your external drive? I recently began getting warnings, via TechTool Pro, that one of my external drives was "failing" (don't remember the exact warning). I just replaced it with an SSD drive.

Secondly, you could try and use Disk Utility to perform some maintenance/fixes. But first, you should clean off as much "not needed, non-essential" stuff from the drive.

Third, the 3 "best" commercial tools to use are Disk Warrior, TechTool Pro, and Drive Genius. Any of those are capable products, although each of them is "kind of" in the forefront with specific functions.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 05 Nov 2016 20:06 #7747

While I like to have a good maintenance app that offers a suite of tests and things (TTP's my first choice, and I also find its edrive an excellent idea), I believe the most important tasks are directory repair (the most common really serious problem is directory corruption) and regularly-renewed bootable clones (for a number of reasons, including, but not limited to fall-back in case of irrepairable damage/loss). I won't name specific apps, but just a little research will inform you.. Disk Utility is way at the bottom of my list in this regard. I use OnyX with some frequency, but it doesn't really repair anything, only provides easy access to the maintenance routines already built into the OS.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 05 Nov 2016 22:30 #7748

gbdoc wrote:
While I like to have a good maintenance app that offers a suite of tests and things (TTP's my first choice, and I also find its edrive an excellent idea), I believe the most important tasks are directory repair (the most common really serious problem is directory corruption) and regularly-renewed bootable clones (for a number of reasons, including, but not limited to fall-back in case of irrepairable damage/loss). I won't name specific apps, but just a little research will inform you.. Disk Utility is way at the bottom of my list in this regard. I use OnyX with some frequency, but it doesn't really repair anything, only provides easy access to the maintenance routines already built into the OS.

What you say is accurate, as long as one has software like Disk Warrior, TechTool Pro, or Drive Genius. But, for those who don't, they need to first do some stuff on their own, like making the effort to clean off unneeded stuff from their drive as soon as possible. Also, with that, Onyx is a great addition, as it does Repair Permissions (and has some useful cleaning routines). Then, one could use Disk Utility.

For folks like you and myself (and others) that have a more advanced disk maintenance program (I have both TechTool Pro and Disk Warrior), Disk Utility, for disk maintenance/repairs, is inferior. One thing, though is that with the advent of SSDs, a number of the "extra" features in TechTool Pro are useless. Volume and File Optimization, and the File Structures feature, are not to be used with SSDs. Features such as Sensors Test, Fans Test, and Battery Check (for laptops) are "nice to have", but not essential.

Thus, one could just have Disk Warrior, and that would work fine. It does an excellent job for Directory Repair, checks files and folders, and Repairs Permissions. I would still use Onyx, though, as I like its cleaning features. (I like to keep my Macs "lean and clean").
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 05 Nov 2016 23:42 #7749

There is no reason why the File Structures test in TechTool Pro cannot be used on an SSD.

The File Optimization and Volume Optimization features should not be used on an SSD because the wear leveling of the drive's firmware puts the file extents where it chooses to, to even out the wear on the sectors.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 06 Nov 2016 00:49 #7750

akent, you keep mentioning "for those who don't have [the industrial-strength maintenance utilities] ..." Those who value their data but don't have at least one of them are living in some kind of fantasy world, in which apps like DU or OnyX might save them. They won't, period. That's nothing more than wishful thinking, and false economy, and your suggestions are misleading. True, many users, perhaps even most, haven't realized that, but that doesn't change reality. Real repair costs real $$$, because their creators, who need and rightfully expect to be paid, don't simply rely on the stuff that the OS already comes with, as the freebies do, but devote real work to make a product that will do the job. This is a case where "almost as good" is no good at all in cases where it's really needed. Ice packs and tea and toast can sometimes help you get over a cold, but if there's a full-blown big-time infection, only antibiotics will do the job, and they cost money.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 06 Nov 2016 03:06 #7751

danlavie wrote:
What other tools can I use untill TTP Sierra will come out?

I must fix an external drive...

Any suggestions of apps similar to TTP 9 ?

Thanks

How do you know or what tells you that your external drive is " bad " ?

Just some thoughts here,

if disk warrior 5 does not solve that problem then try these

perhaps running a combo update date for that OS support.apple.com/downloads/combo

or a reinstall using the OS recovery support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904

or a " safe " restart support.apple.com/en-us/HT201262

on the other hand if it is really a hardware issue then from my experience no software is capable of fixing a bad hard drive only $$$$ required to purchase a new hard drive which these days are truly inexpensive.

However if that drive is really gone bad then there would be an issue of trying to recover the data on that disk and there are software for that job.

Hope i really understood your question and please excuse me if i got your question all wrong.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 06 Nov 2016 20:06 #7752

gbdoc wrote:
akent, you keep mentioning "for those who don't have [the industrial-strength maintenance utilities] ..." Those who value their data but don't have at least one of them are living in some kind of fantasy world, in which apps like DU or OnyX might save them. They won't, period. That's nothing more than wishful thinking, and false economy, and your suggestions are misleading. True, many users, perhaps even most, haven't realized that, but that doesn't change reality. Real repair costs real $$$, because their creators, who need and rightfully expect to be paid, don't simply rely on the stuff that the OS already comes with, as the freebies do, but devote real work to make a product that will do the job. This is a case where "almost as good" is no good at all in cases where it's really needed. Ice packs and tea and toast can sometimes help you get over a cold, but if there's a full-blown big-time infection, only antibiotics will do the job, and they cost money.

You are mis-interpreting my intent. Yes, folks that don't have a more advanced disk maintenance/repair program like TechTool Pro, Disk Warrior, or Drive Genius are asking for trouble, and to just rely on Disk Utility (and possibly Onyx, although there other similar products) are also asking for trouble. The same holds true for backups. I have been on a number of various Mac forums, and there are still a fairly large number of Mac users out there who think Macs do not need any maintenance at all, and also don't need backups! Of course quite a few of us know better.

On one site I visit every day, I definitely try and put forth all the benefits of performing disk maintenance and backups, but I am not sure it is registering. There is only so much can be done to try and educate such folks.

I would think that if one commits to doing disk cleanup every day, does not download "vicious stuff", and makes backups (I prefer SuperDuper!, but Time Machine should be OK), and practices good, basic disk maintenance tasks, Disk Utility could be enough. But, I would still use a product like Onyx, to at least repair permissions. Since El Capitan, the Mac OS supposedly takes care of repairing permissions, but I don't believe it. Every time I run Onyx (as part of my weekly disk cleanup/maintenance/repair, and backup processing), it definitely repairs permissions on both of my Macs.

Still, though, I certainly agree with you that if one wants to protect their investment, a third party disk maintenance program like TechTool Pro, Disk Warrior, or Drive Genius is a necessity, as is doing backups.
Last Edit: 07 Nov 2016 00:59 by akent35. Reason: Spelling correction.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 06 Nov 2016 20:11 #7753

micromattech3 wrote:
There is no reason why the File Structures test in TechTool Pro cannot be used on an SSD.

The File Optimization and Volume Optimization features should not be used on an SSD because the wear leveling of the drive's firmware puts the file extents where it chooses to, to even out the wear on the sectors.

I am not sure where I (supposedly) read that the File Structures test is to be avoided, but I'll start running it again (after I run the Volume Structures test).
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 06 Nov 2016 20:32 #7754

Walter wrote:
danlavie wrote:
What other tools can I use untill TTP Sierra will come out?

I must fix an external drive...

Any suggestions of apps similar to TTP 9 ?

Thanks

How do you know or what tells you that your external drive is " bad " ?

Just some thoughts here,

if disk warrior 5 does not solve that problem then try these

perhaps running a combo update date for that OS support.apple.com/downloads/combo

or a reinstall using the OS recovery support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904

or a " safe " restart support.apple.com/en-us/HT201262

on the other hand if it is really a hardware issue then from my experience no software is capable of fixing a bad hard drive only $$$$ required to purchase a new hard drive which these days are truly inexpensive.

However if that drive is really gone bad then there would be an issue of trying to recover the data on that disk and there are software for that job.

Hope i really understood your question and please excuse me if i got your question all wrong.

It is difficult, at times, to know if a drive is really going bad, or if software can fix the issue/issues. In my case, one of my external hard drives was being "flagged" by TechTool Pro as getting "bad" (cannot remember the exact verbiage, but it was certainly ominous). As it is, that external drive I had was a "transplanted" 1 TB Seagate 7200 rpm mechanism, inside an Iomega external enclosure. And I already knew that drive was more than 5 years old. While not always a true "gauge", hard disk drives typically have a life of between 5 and 7 years (depending on use, and possibly other factors). Given that I was using two of the partitions on the drive for backups, I decided not to take chances, and have replaced that dive with a Samsung 850 Pro 512 gig SSD inside a nice, slim Orico case.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 07 Nov 2016 05:16 #7755

Big thanks for all the good people who replied and suggested ideas/

The whole thing started with an important drive that refused to show it's files, got very slow, and it felt like a drive with some big issue.

That drive was also the only one that wasn't backed up by Time Machine routine.

The Mac OS DiskUtil reported it can't repair it.
So I went straight to TechTool Pro 9.0.1, and remembered someone alerted not to use ver. 9.0.1 with Sierra.
Didn't want to take chances, and purchased Drive Genius 4 that is advertised as safe with Mac OS Sierra.

Drive Genius 4 "Physical Test" reported quite immediately, that this drive got major bad sectors etc'..
I also ordered DiskWarrior 5 upgrade, but it takes these good guys a few days to process. not sure why.

So my next logical step was rescue.

My tool for that rescue was Disk Drill Pro ver 3.

Disk Drill recovered all my data to an external healthy drive, and all is good now.

My resolution from all of this:

1. Keep regular backups of all your data on a Local Drive + Cloud backup.
I use Time Machine as local, and "Amazon Cloud Drive" and my cloud backup. ($60 /year for unlimited storage)

2. Keep an updated copy of Disk Warrior and run it every moth or two to make sure all your drive directories is in good shape.

3. Keep an updated version of Tech Tool Pro for all the rest bells and whistles. This is the best all round tool for the Mac in my opinion. but of curse, we wait for the good Micromat people to finish it's 9.0.2 Sierra version.

4. When you have an issue, and you open a ticket on this forum, be patient and wait at least a day for replies. I say that since some of the replies might give you more insight about your next step.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 07 Nov 2016 13:49 #7766

Dan, just a bit from my experience. The fact that DU couldn't repair your drive is no big deal; DU can't repair very much that can, in fact be repaired. As for the good repair apps: I once had a situation where TTP said it couldn't repair my disk, so I ran DW, with the same result. Not wanting to give up (I think back then I didn't have backups), I ran each one two or three times more, one after the other, and suddenly all was well again. I don't know DG, or whether it is supposed to fix directory corruption and such, but if it can, once you get DW, you might try the same thing; you've got nothing to lose. That said, a word of caution. Even if you manage to fix it, your disk (the hardware) may in fact be on its last legs (or not; I don't know how to tell the difference). If I were you, I'd replace it soon.

Another thing: you use TM as your local backup, plus the Cloud. That'd be too risky for me. I'm often places where the internet is bad or not available, so the Cloud would be useless. As for TM, as handy as it sometimes is, it's not reliable. On more than one occasion, I've suddenly found that my oldest Time Capsule backups were just a day or two old, though the disk apparently still had lots of data on it, and should have gone back to whatever the limit is, 2 years or so. So my main, most secure backups are bootable clones (SuperDuper!) made at least weekly. I use a small drive for that, which I take with me when I travel. The Mac being what it is, I've only rarely needed the clones, but when I did, I was back in action very quickly, with no problem.
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 07 Nov 2016 16:19 #7767

To augment gbdoc's post about backups, I am not willing to deal with "off line" products for backups. Besides internet connectivity issues, I have some sensitive information on my machine (and thus on my backups), and thus I insist on having control.

I don't use my machines for much "critical" processing, so to have "instant"/up to the minute backups is not necessary. Hence, I use SuperDuper! once a week for backing up each of my machines to two separate external devices. I do make a concerted, daily effort to keep my machines "lean and clean", but if I ever have an "in between" backups catastrophe, the only critical things I lose are 1) transactions I posted to Quicken (I do the same on both of my machines, and also still record them in a paper version), 2) EMails (again, I receive very few important ones), and 3) any updates I downloaded (again, I do the same for both of my machines).

I really like how easy it is to recover from a catastrophe with SuperDuper!, as I can boot the machine from such a backup. Also, I can even boot from such a backup, use Disk Utility there to Erase and Format my SSD drive, do a clean, "virgin" installation of the OS I am using (El Capitan, in my case), and then use Migration Assistant to "migrate"/copy needed stuff from the SuperDuper! backup. I then re-boot my Mac, and I'm just about back in business. About the only "negative" aspect of SuperDuper! is that it does not backup the (hidden) Recovery HD partition (Carbon Copy Cloner does). But, that is no biggie for me, as I already can use Disk Utility from the backup, I already have a copy of the OS Installation file, and I can use tools like TechTool Pro and Disk Warrior to better check things out. Also, if I just do a SuperDuper! restore, it is actually easy to re-create the Recovery HD partition. (Of course, by doing a clean, "virgin" installation of the OS, it gets created anyway).

I actually will follow that procedure once I upgrade to Sierra, OS 10.12.1. I suspect it will work just fine.
Last Edit: 07 Nov 2016 18:45 by akent35. Reason: Punctuation correction
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 12 Nov 2016 13:05 #7781

Is this statement still valid?

"Techtool Pro macOS Sierra (10.12) compatibility - updated 10/24/16
We have been actively testing Techtool Pro with macOS Sierra (10.12) and have found only a small number of issues, none of which affect using Techtool Pro 9 safely. You may use version 9.0.1 safely despite the warning dialogue, however the battery test may not appear for some MacBook users, and the eDrive tool will be disabled. A free update to Techtool Pro 9 (version 9.0.2) should be available by early November which will enable eDrive and remove the warning. Users with immediate compatiblity needs should contact our support team.

Disk Permissions is also disabled in version 9.0.1, and will also be enabled in version 9.0.2 pending any unexpected changes in the OS.

Other Known Issues with version 9.0.1 and Sierra:

TechTool Protection system preference may quit unexpectedly
Drives without UUID may cause Check Computer configuration to hang


None of the above issues have been shown to cause issues outside of the application, drives and data should be unaffected if you experience any of the above."
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 12 Nov 2016 14:02 #7782

As far as I know, the statement is still valid, except for the release estimate of "early November". I do not see these compatibility issues myself, since I am still using Mac OS 10.10.5, and testing the beta of TechTool Pro 9.0.2 with it.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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Status of TechTool Pro V9.0.1 and OS 10.12, Sierra Compatibility 12 Nov 2016 16:24 #7783

I am still not willing to try and use TTPro V9.0.1 with OS 10.12. But, this is getting ridiculous, regarding the release of V9.0.2 (or should I say non-release). It is going on 53 days since the release of OS 10.12, and still no update from Micromat. Shoot, one week from today would make it 60 days, ie, 2 months!
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