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TOPIC: losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild?

losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 15 Aug 2013 10:25 #4508

hi, i did a Volume rebuild and everything is green for changes, except a red Volume Content Size. It would go from 329.91 to 329.67... is this OK to go ahead and replace?

the green is: Catalog B Tree info Used nodes would be lower.
Extents B Tree Info tree Depth from 1 to 0, used nodes from 2 to 1...

i dont want to hit replace until i know if this loss in Vol Content Size is normal... well it is in RED.

thank you!!
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 15 Aug 2013 10:29 #4509

As long as you have a backup, I think you can replace the directory. There are some cases in which disk space is regarded as being in use when it should be free, because the Volume Bitmap has errors.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 15 Aug 2013 11:12 #4510

Thanks for the fast reply. It IS the backup i'm doing this to... i thought it would be good to make changes and then run from it.

Also, if i do a File Op & Vol Op on my backup and then do an incremental backup later from my mainHD to that back-up...will the backup's files and volume remain Optimized? or revert to the main HD's locations
thank you,

j
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 15 Aug 2013 11:30 #4511

You are welcome.

The files added to any volume after it is optimized will be written to free space, but as files are deleted during later incremental backups, some fragmentation will occur.

You should not be optimizing a backup unless you have another backup.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 15 Aug 2013 11:37 #4512

Great, thank you. Its good to be able to proceed.
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 15 Aug 2013 12:39 #4513

You are welcome.

It would be a good idea to run the Surface Scan to check the drive containing the backup.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 29 Aug 2013 20:47 #4601

hi, me again. i still have not replaced the directory. I just noticed that there is another red number. The Leaf Record Count in the Extents B-Tree info: would go from a green 1 to red 0.

My "backup" is a clone from yesterday.
I did locate a 2 year old clone backup that tests ok on everything. Could i use any of that to replace elements of the Volume Structures in case i run into problems if i replace current directory? (Excluding photos and Mp3's its roughly the same size as the one i have now.)

other original Directory Data vs. Rebuild Dir. Data of my internal drive is:
all are favorable green changes.......Catalog B-Tree info used nodes: 56,523 to 48,810
Free Nodes: 8,373 to 16,086

Extents B-Tree info: Depth from 1 to 0
used nodes: 2 to 1
Free Nodes 2,302 to a green 3,303

I'm afraid if i accept the rebuild i dont have a recent enough back up to fix it. (I do have the one from yesterday of course.)
Would you suggest going ahead with it and just trying to run some of my programs to see if they work afterword?

And how would i know the effect of the rebuilt Directory?
My macbook Pro has been functioning, i just did this test and found the red numbers... I dont want to come to a stand-still in my work just now.

(When i've used Disk Repair in Mac's First Aid window it said the disk was sucessfully repaired fwiw...)

I'd be happy for any other advice.

thanks,
jeff t
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 29 Aug 2013 21:47 #4602

Leaf records point directly to pieces of a file. If a file was not deleted properly by the filesystem (not your fault) then fixing the disk directory would result in having one less leaf record. The Extents B-Tree keeps track of the locations of file pieces beyond the first eight for a given file.

The usual rule for when it is safe to replace a disk directory is to compare the total number of files and folders and the total amount of disk space occupied by the files in the original directory and the proposed rebuild. If they match, it should be safe to replace the directory. In a case in which the filesystem did not properly delete a file, then the amount of occupied disk space would be expected to change.

The only thing you can do that is safe is to make a new backup of the volume on which you want to rebuild the disk directory, and then rebuild it before making any other changes to the volume. In that case, if something unusual happens, you can at least get back to where you were, and not be any worse off.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 29 Aug 2013 21:49 #4603

It would be interesting to know what diagnosis Disk Utility gives for this volume.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 29 Aug 2013 23:29 #4604

thanks for the fast reply.
i used Disk Utility to verify... it came back in red: "Volume bitmap needs minor repair for orphaned blocks". Also red: "invalid volume free block count". In black: (it should be 34164631 instead of 34104897)
In red: "this vol needs to be repaired".

i then clicked repair disk, and it did... coming back "disk successfully repaired." I then repaired the permissions and re-started the mac. At which point i clicked a TTP Volume Rebuild... which now; comes up "No Rebuild errors Encountered". Cool!
But then right after, it flunks the TTP Volume Structure test!

How can it pass the Volume Rebuild, and then flunk the Volume Structure test? (Also, it passed the Surface Scan i did last night.) Any advice please?!

I'm running a File Structures test now and will let it do this overnight.

thanks much, jeff
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 29 Aug 2013 23:46 #4605

You are welcome, and thanks for the update.

You are using a version of TechTool Pro that is two generations removed from what is current. There have from time to time been cases in which the Volume Rebuild tool would report a successful rebuild, and then the Volume Structures test would report an error. It is possible that this result would not happen if the volume were repaired by TechTool Pro 6 or 7. There is no way to know in advance. Be sure to run the Surface Scan on the drive.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 29 Aug 2013 23:56 #4606

Thank you for the quick reply.
I used Disk Utility & click "verify disk", it came back: checking volume bitmap.
Then in red said "volume bitmap needs minor repair for orphaned blocks"
followed by "checking volume information."
Then in red said " invalid volume free block count"
in black then says (it should be 34164631 instead of 34104897)
then: volume was found corrupt and needs to be repaired.

I then click" repair disk" and it successfully does.
After that I repair permissions and restart the Mac. I then open TTP and run a Volume Rebuild which then says No Rebuild Errors. Cool!
However after that, it still flunks a Volume Structures test! How can it do that?! Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Also, this volume passed a Surface Scan yesterday.

I'm now running a File Structures test which will take all night.

thanks, jeff
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 30 Aug 2013 00:03 #4607

Do you mean TTP 6 or 7 would have not said it was repaired?
Or, i would not get the Volume Structures error ?

which do i believe now? my Vol Structures report or Volume rebuild?

thanks, jeff
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 30 Aug 2013 00:12 #4608

It is less likely that TechTool Pro 6 or 7 would run Volume Rebuild, report success, and then report a diagnosis of "failure" if you immediately ran the Volume Structures test again.

Unfortunately, as soon as the Volume Rebuild process is finished and the volume is remounted, the operating system starts writing to it, for example, updating the Spotlight index, so it is difficult to say that the volume that is getting examined by the new run of the Volume Structures test is identical to the one that existed when the Volume Rebuild process finished.

If Disk Utility finds no error now, i would not be too concerned about the disk directory. If the Volume Structures test finds a problem, please post the details.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 30 Aug 2013 00:12 #4609

Like i said, it passed a surface scan yesterday. Do you mean do again?

also, do you think its safe to run the File op and Volume Op tools? I'd like to defrag this HD and add a Bootcamp partition but need to sort this Volume Structures issue.

thanks for your help,
jeff
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 30 Aug 2013 00:19 #4610

Run the Surface Scan overnight.

Do not run a disk optimizer on this volume while you are getting odd results from rebuilding the disk directory and then running the Volume Structures test. Copy the files to another volume with Carbon Copy Cloner or Super Duper, make sure the files got copied from the source volume to the new backup, erase the source volume, and then copy the files from the backup volume to the source volume. Disk optimizers and any disk directory problem are not a good combination. There is no way to know if the odd result you are getting is going to be able to be solved.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 30 Aug 2013 00:29 #4611

There is little point in running the File Structures test until after you have finished copying the files and copying them back, as described above.

If Disk Utility finds any problems with the disk directory, you will not be able to install the Bootcamp partition, because the Bootcamp utility uses the same code that Disk Utility uses to check the disk directory, before splitting a volume to create the Bootcamp partition.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 30 Aug 2013 01:07 #4612

i just got done with Disk Utility and it came up as OK.
also the File Structures test came out clear.
The Volume rebuild test just completed now under Extents B-Tree info says in red: Leaf Record count 3 ( original Directory Data Leaf count is 4. (And some green numbers for the Catalog B-Tree used and Free nodes.)

will now run another Surface Scan as you reccommend overnight.

thanks for all your help!

jeff t
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losing .24gb Volume Content in Volume Rebuild? 30 Aug 2013 02:03 #4613

You are welcome.

I am sorry that I am not going to be able to explain why the leaf record count will go down if you rebuild the disk directory on a volume on which Disk Utility finds no fault.

Assuming that the Surface Scan finds no problem with the drive, I think you should back it up and proceed as described above. Do not run the disk optimizer.
MicroMat Inc
Makers of TechTool
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